10

TLDR

  • This post follows on the learnings from the Comments experiment. We’re taking a specific look at what we saw in Discussions and detailing some observations.

  • We’re proposing a further experiment with the current Discussions functionality, making Discussions tightly focused on one type of conversation, clearly separate from Q&A focus.

  • The post seeks feedback on options for that area of focus.

  • This is not a proposal to persist with the current functionality for the long term, but rather to use what we have to learn more as we consider the long term path.

What did we already know and what did we learn?

There’s been much said about the Discussions experiment since it launched, and the Meta community’s enthusiasm for it has ebbed and flowed. There is recognition of the potential value of such a space – potentially to house relevant content that doesn’t quite fit with Stack Overflow Q&A, or to provide well-intentioned users with a space to have subjective, open-ended conversations on technical topics.

There have been challenges stemming from the “scrappy” nature of the experimental feature, with its limitations as well as the level of accessibility to spammers. By design, there was never a clear definition of what Discussions is for, since the idea was to see what participants wanted to do there. There has been more focus on what Discussions is not for, which is informative but does not necessarily offer the clarity that users need to find success.

With the inclusion of Discussions in the Comment experiment, we sought to explore whether the space could alleviate the burden from the comment section. The assumption was that there was some overlap there, with Discussions as a way to start those conversations adjacent to (or spinning off from) a question or answer that needed space to flourish.

A key learning was that, while there is something to be explored in that realm, sending users from one somewhat ambiguous space (comments) to another (Discussions) was not offering many users the clarity they needed. And the overlap in use cases may not have been as great as we initially thought.

Next steps & your feedback

The original approach for Discussions was to start broad and to see what emerged. We’ve probably reached the limits of what we can learn there, with this implementation at least.

In the near term, we are:

  • Increasing the reputation requirement on Discussions to 2, temporarily as has been done in the past. This is to alleviate pressure from spam (as other teams explore platform-wide anti-spam measures) and reduce volume of posts as we look at next steps

  • Deleting Discussions posts generated from the comments experiment that did not have any replies. Those posts will get a reply (still visible to the author after deletion) noting that the post is being removed due to inactivity.

In the medium term, to maximize our learning with Discussions, we’d like to define the space’s focus — in other words, focus the types of conversations on a specific topic or theme. We have some thoughts on what that topic could be, but we’d like your input on where you think the current version, with a little fine-tuning, could be effective as a testing ground and learning tool.

Please note: This does not mean we’re “doubling down” on how Discussions works today. Clearly some changes will be needed regardless of direction, and we don’t consider the current Discussions product to be a foundation for a long-term solution. Rather than rehash the many missing aspects (which are well known), the intent of this post is to help determine the focus of a better-defined conversation space. With that narrower focus and structured guidance for this experiment, we will learn more about the potential of Discussions.

Also note that this post is not defining a long-term focus for a future Discussions space, this is only in service of the next experiment.

Our criteria for potential topics are something focused, and easy to explain and something likely to generate conversation.

These are options for the area of focus we’re considering for the experiment:

Each of these is expanded on in a linked answer. Feel free to comment and vote on each as you see fit and/or offer feedback in your own comments and answers. Please note that the name and description for each area of focus is meant to clarify for further discussion here, it’s not final wording by any means.

The feedback on the post will be one input into selection of a focus area. We’ll be using other tools to gather opinions from contributors and readers.

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  • 14
    "Deleting Discussions posts generated from the comments experiment that did not have any replies" this isn't likely to be capture everything (or the majority ), of posts that need deletion. I, and some others, tried to redirect misled users back on course, and the only way we could do this was with replies.
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 22 at 17:00
  • 7
    "Increasing the reputation requirement on Discussions to 2" thank you, this is greatly appreciated.
    – Thom A
    Commented Apr 22 at 17:01
  • 8
    @ThomA We're doing the deletions and flag-clearing manually, so we're not counting those replies from you. The note about this is still appreciated!
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Apr 22 at 17:06
  • 1
    when are you going to come back to the conversation you opened about the "meaning" of downvotes in discussions? did I miss your follow-up? the only staff comment on my answer there was from V2Blast...
    – starball
    Commented Apr 22 at 18:20
  • Is the intention to choose one of the three proposals as the singular area of focus? Or is the idea to potentially support multiple?
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 22 at 19:11
  • 3
    @zcoop98 The idea is to choose one of the three for the upcoming experiment.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Apr 22 at 20:03
  • 2
    @starball the sentiment around the value of downvotes was pretty clear on that post's responses, and we'll be assessing changes to (or restoration of) features and functions once we identify the topic area. I agree we do owe some follow-up on that post.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Apr 22 at 20:05
  • 1
    @starball: My comment there wasn't a "staff comment", for reference. I got laid off back in October 2023, nearly 6 months before that Q&A.
    – V2Blast
    Commented Apr 23 at 0:52
  • 3
    What about the godawful UI and editor? It is far from MVP. The most severe problems being the lack of threaded comment depth and the godawful editor which is nowhere near proper handling of source code. Also the posting mechanism is broken and the site often hangs up when you try to post something. There's some hidden posting length limit which also bugs posting out. All these things needed to be fixed before presenting Discussions to Labs/beta testing.
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 23 at 13:48
  • 1
    @Lundin We'll be taking a look at the top UX and performance issues and determine what we can tackle before the next experiment. With regard to the editor, we'll look at any Discussions-specific issues as well, but I do want to note that the editor itself is not specific to Discussions.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Apr 23 at 21:06
  • As it's done on Área 51, in think that each proposed área of focus should include sample "discussions" and evaluate if there is enough clarity and committers before launching. Consider to run a prívate beta ensuring to include enough experts on the área of focus
    – Wicket
    Commented Apr 26 at 13:16

6 Answers 6

19

Tooling and workflow choices

Gathering insights from others on navigating what tools to use and how to approach technical decisions.

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  • 2
    Are tooling and technical decisions closely related? I guess that technical decisions could potentially be much wider but not sure. Commented Apr 22 at 18:59
  • 4
    Of the three, this is the one I like the most. I think it fills a nice spot where it's directly relevant and adjacent to main site topics, but also not fit for the main site directly– being too opinionated and transient for normal Q&A. Even just speaking personally, I'm very interested to learn about new tools and workflows that I could learn from or adopt! It also feels nicely focused on content itself, instead of the person (which TIL-style content can verge into), and almost completely non-speculative (which tech trends can probably spill into more easily).
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 22 at 21:43
  • 2
    This one is likely to be an endless source of fluff. "What is the best language to make a ToDo app?", "What is the best JavaScript framework to make a calculator?", "What is the best Python library to make an online shop?", etc. Where the choices of tech are rarely connected to the target goal. The best language to choose most often is the one you already know, as opposed to a brand new language. Similarly, a known framework or a library (assuming on-topic) is still better than something you just have to get into.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 23 at 5:35
  • Tooling and workflow choices is going to be mostly what AI nonsense to use which is going to result in the usual posts that have caused tool recommendations to be outlawed from Q&A. A little too late for that one, IMO.
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 23 at 13:19
  • 2
    @VLAZ What's wrong with fluff in Discussions if people, subjectively, feel like they're getting value from it?
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 23 at 15:47
  • 1
    @zcoop98 because it doesn't actually help. We could replace the whole of Discussions with a button that, when pressed, shows you a random picture of a puppy. I'd argue that provides equal or greater value. I feel people have plenty of choices to ask their "What's best X for Y?" questions, and SO should be providing something of substance. If SO is just yet another Reddit or Discord then I don't really see a future for Discussions. The competition is out there and does pretty much everything better. I don't see "the reddit we have at home" as a good product. But it's not really up to me, either
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 23 at 21:56
19

What sort of measures are planned in order to keep Discussions focused on whatever area is chosen?


There was a post about why Documentation failed where Jon Ericson cited Horyun Song:

Horyun makes a wonderful analogy involving chairs. Imagine walking into a room with these two setups:

Chaos vs. Organization

The right hand side is clearly more welcoming since the chairs are arranged in a way that welcomes (affords) sitting. Without clear organization, Documentation started to look a lot more like the the chairs on the left. Private beta users saw a clean slate and users at launch walked into a work in progress. Some topics were better organized than others, but our focus on content creation distracted from content curation.

The same thing is repeating with Discussions. But we never had the right side chairs because:

By design, there was never a clear definition of what Discussions is for, since the idea was to see what participants wanted to do there.

Only leads to the left side of the picture. There needs to be something that conducts organising the content.

3
  • 2
    I've wondered: is it that discussions needs focus, or organization around topics? I'm in favor of less focus, but more organization to promote browsing. Tags feel less intuitive in discussions. Commented Apr 23 at 13:06
  • 4
    @GregBurghardt Discussions have neither. They are an amorphous blob that just exists. Unless any form is imposed on them, they'd amount to nothing. It's high time they became something. But just paying lip service "Now Discussions are X", nothing would actually change.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Apr 23 at 13:09
  • I wish I could upvote this multiple times. To staff: Documentation has been brought up multiple times by VLAZ, myself, and others in wrt Discussions. Please go and take a look at that post while keeping Discussions and its goals in your mind. Documentation was a better product compared to Discussions, yet it failed. If you t want your time and effort spent on Discussions to amount to something solid, please make sure that the previous learned lessons are not forgotten.
    – M--
    Commented Apr 24 at 22:05
7

Choosing the right architecture or pattern

Help with the decision-making process of matching software architecture, design patterns, and deployment strategies with a particular kind of application.

(or maybe include this in "Tooling and workflow choices")


There is an endless influx of these types of questions in the Software Engineering community and they are all way too broad to be answerable. I've been redirecting people to discussions. There is some overlap with "Tooling and workflow choices". I just feel like "tooling and workflow" choices completely misses discussions about "I am building a X style application. What is the right architecture?"

I like reading these kinds of discussions and engaging with them. It's a great way to get introduced to new ways of doing things, but I don't see a spot for it anywhere in the Stack Exchange ecosystem.

Some examples:

You can peruse the closed questions in the architecture tag for more examples.

I would like such questions to live in Discussions.

1
  • I was trying to figure out how I wanted to word my own suggestion, but this seems already close enough to what I had in mind. It's also a natural extension of "tooling and workflow choices"; one might make an analogous choice between library dependencies, algorithms etc. Commented Apr 24 at 21:30
-6

Technology trends

Discuss the latest direction of technology. Conversations on new products, solutions, and innovations.

6
  • 4
    Maybe avoid overly speculation. "What is the next big ...?" type of discussions rarely are good. Make them as specific as possible or even comparisons of existing or announced technology. Commented Apr 22 at 19:02
  • 10
    How can we make sure discussions participants disclosed their affiliation if they are promoting their products? This could be another place for spams for certain products, especially those consulting companies.
    – ray
    Commented Apr 22 at 20:00
  • 1
    @ray: I mean, the same applies to Q&A and comments. All we/they can do is establish the rules, and then it's just a matter of enforcing them. Definitely something to watch out for, but I don't think Discussions is different from Q&A in this regard.
    – V2Blast
    Commented Apr 23 at 0:54
  • 5
    This will be overrun by self-promotion.
    – julaine
    Commented Apr 23 at 6:21
  • I've run into a number of discussions that walk the line between a legitimate discussion about a topic and a veiled attempt at promoting something. My answer has been to flag it as spam. Commented Apr 23 at 13:09
  • 1
    A lot of the posts will become obsolete over time. Users who go there for latest trends don't have much reason to care about old posts. There might be a new programming language, with a short-lived Discussion post, but eventually it will stop being new and then it's just a post about an established language - which might still be useful, but if you want to read about the latest news/trends you probably won't care too much about it. If some new technology is actually relevant you can discuss it in the context of tooling/workflow. Tooling and workflow makes more sense to me.
    – Lomtrur
    Commented Apr 24 at 7:13
-7

Receive feedback and code critique from peers and experts

Share your working code with the community in hopes of identifying potential issues, suggesting improvements, and sharing knowledge.

5
  • 8
    sounds like something for code review
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 24 at 17:37
  • 2
    Could you please elaborate on how this is similar to or different from Code Review?
    – Wicket
    Commented Apr 24 at 20:18
  • @Wicket More ingrained into this particular site and I'm also curious if there are tools that could be built to better support things like code reviews (probably a bigger question than the one Berthold posed)
    – Piper StaffMod
    Commented Apr 25 at 19:35
  • What does "More ingrained into this particular site" mean?
    – philipxy
    Commented Apr 26 at 10:28
  • Thanks for your reply Piper. As seed to start a discussion this is great. Ironically, Meta isn't great to have discussions than require a lot of back and forth.
    – Wicket
    Commented Apr 26 at 13:06
-16

TIL (Today I Learned)

Personal stories and observations from those learning about and working in software development.

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  • 9
    I've personally never understood the use of this kind of post (or even the entire subreddit). Today I learned that some languages allow [-1] as an index to reference the last item in a array. Tomorrow Alice might learn the same thing. The day after, Bob. How many posts do we need about the same trivial syntax? This is the sort of info that you can write on a sticky note and attach it to your monitor. A discussion about such a design decision from a language perspective might be interesting, but there's a different stackexchange site for that. Otherwise this sort of post belongs on a blog. Commented Apr 22 at 17:58
  • @RoddyoftheFrozenPeas - I did up vote this, although reluctantly. I think what might be missing is some way to inform users that they can post things like this: stackoverflow.com/beta/discussions/79551103/… --- this is the sort of irreverent stuff I would also like to see in Discussions, but I don't know how it would fit in to the three proposed guidelines. (1/2) Commented Apr 22 at 18:22
  • 4
    (2/2) But I agree that the specific topic you mentioned is pointless. But does everything in Discussions need to have a point? Can we just discuss stuff and have a community? That's what I would like. Commented Apr 22 at 18:22
  • @GregBurghardt Unfortunately not an option here. I would have some examples ready: "Which keyboards minimized typewriter cramps?", "Which techniques help to concentrate on programming with people chatting close by or making video calls?", ... Commented Apr 22 at 18:56
  • @NoDataDumpNoContribution - are you saying the examples you gave shouldn't be discussions or should? It's hard to tell from your reply. Commented Apr 22 at 20:00
  • Do we limit the lesson learned to be in technical aspect and if so, how? I have seen discussions drifted to career discussions/stories, which are discouraged under current guideline.
    – ray
    Commented Apr 22 at 20:02
  • @GregBurghardt Sorry for the confusion. I think they should. And I agree with your notion of general discussions. However, the company won't experiment with that currently. It's not within one of the categories in the answers. Commented Apr 22 at 20:06
  • 5
    @GregBurghardt We did see that many of the more general discussions (such as the one you linked in your first comment) were well-received and got good engagement. That is one reason we are confident that the concept of a Discussions space is appealing to the community. And in the long term, with better tooling and user guidance, such a space would likely include those. So don't despair! Right now we're looking to define a specific focus and see what happens.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Apr 22 at 20:17
  • 3
    how about a chatroom instead?
    – starball
    Commented Apr 22 at 20:52
  • 1
    "Today I learnt x. How about applying x to y?" This is a question posting a bunch of irrelevant "fluff": what people know and don't know about something is personal and not very interesting. This can be much better phrased as just "How about applying x to y?".
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 23 at 13:59
  • Here is a non-trivial example of this: I grew a symbolic visual interference model --- I find it interesting, but difficult to know what a suitable reply would be... other than... maybe... "good job" or "that's cool." And perhaps that's the litmus test. If that's all you can think of for a reply, then it's not a good topic. Commented Apr 24 at 12:23
  • "Share perspectives, advice, and insights" --- I think the post in my previous comment falls into the "insights" category, but it is difficult to know how to engage with it. Commented Apr 24 at 12:24
  • This might be better handled on a social network or chat site with hashtags or tags suitable for this type of post, i.e., making it easier for users to create a chat room with a 'TIL' tag.
    – Wicket
    Commented Apr 24 at 20:25

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